This week, we dive headfirst into the world of complex deals and team selling — and discover that the secret to winning big opportunities isn’t bringing eleven people and a 300-slide deck into a meeting. In fact… it’s usually the opposite.
We explore why complex deals are more often lost to internal chaos than to competitors, how healthy businesses create healthier sales processes, and why clarity beats noise every single time. Along the way, we talk about overloaded pipelines, managing urgency without panic, executive sponsorship, customer alignment, and the importance of having one person truly “own” the opportunity.
There’s also a cautionary tale involving eleven people heading into a defense contractor meeting… which thankfully became two people and three slides before anyone got hurt.
As always, we manage to make complex sales sound both strategic and mildly ridiculous — which, honestly, is probably the most accurate description of enterprise selling anyone’s ever come up with.
[00:00:20] Hello everyone and greetings from a pub in Oxfordshire. Andy Baqone Well, I wish I was there with you Andy. Hello everybody, I am Scott coming to you from a hotel room in Burlington, Massachusetts. Andy Baqone And I'm Andy and I forgot to mention that but I'm sure anyone who's listening already knows that. However, the great thing is we're both away from home and we are fully living this global perspectives on business development to help you
[00:00:50] prosper, which is part of the Tea and Timbits podcast that we try to focus on every week. And once a month throughout the year we have been focusing on different themes and this month is no different. So we are going to be focusing in the month of May on complex or large deals and we'll be going into different themes related to that and this week we're focusing on team selling.
[00:01:18] Andy Baqone But before we get into that Scott, do you have a story for us? Scott Snowden Well, thank you Andy. Yes, I was trying to come up with something that was on topic for this, you know, complex deal theme and I'm sure, you know, many stories will come back to me but I was sort of stuck on one that's a little bit more related to our theme from from last month which is sort of healthy mind healthy team healthy healthy selling. Scott O'Ban Well, thank you.
[00:01:45] Steve McLaughlin Because I've been busy lately. Good busy and certainly the travel kind of takes its toll although I also find that kind of energizing at the same time. And I'm not quite sure I can't quite place why right now things are suddenly a little bit busier.
[00:02:08] Steve McLaughlin You know, a lot of times clients, businesses, especially larger organizations are, well actually I guess it doesn't matter how big you are but their fiscal year is tied to the calendar year. And so you end up with these cycles that sort of have a trickle down effect. I don't think it has any bearing on what our fiscal cycle is. But a lot of businesses they're thinking about budgets as the calendar year winds down, as their fiscal year winds down, they're starting to plan for the coming year.
[00:02:37] Steve McLaughlin Some people are good about that and they get them all organized and they can give out commitments and they can make some plans and they can start executing on those, you know, early in the year in January. And we do see often a bit of a spike in new commitments and new opportunities that come in at that point. Steve McLaughlin But then you end up with another spike right around about March.
[00:03:02] And I think that's because some of those people who do get their budgets, then they do start getting proposals and quotes and they go through the decision making process. Or they've been given a soft approval that your budget's coming but you can't spend the money yet because it's got to go to the board. Or, you know, there's all these sort of procedural things that I think have an influence on it. But for some reason, this year, it all got kind of delayed a little bit. And so maybe it's completely unrelated to that. I don't know. But my point is, it doesn't really matter.
[00:03:31] My point is, in sales, you don't always get a chance to pick your hours. You can't exactly say to somebody, oh, well, thanks for an opportunity to respond to your RFP. But I'm really busy right now. So it would work better for me if I did that in two weeks, right? Like, you just can't do that. You've got to decide to step up and take it on and manage all these deadlines. And a lot of them are going to be overlapping. And you have to do your best to juggle that.
[00:04:01] And, yeah, we've got different tactics for that. You can bring in some extra help and you can pull in people from the business that, you know, might have some extra time to contribute to that. But you're also going to end up throughout the year with times that are just a little slower. And so I think it's just important to, one, when those slower times happen, remember that you should give yourself a break and you should take advantage of that. And you should make sure that that is something you use to build up those energy reserves again.
[00:04:31] And also when you're busy, you know, just appreciate that, you know, you've got that busyness back in your life and in that moment. And I think there's a certain part of all salespeople that allows you to sort of lean into the energy that that does give you.
[00:04:52] And just sort of remember that on the whole, you have to remember to balance out some of those pressures and expectations because you can't always pick when they're going to happen.
[00:05:04] I think that's a very valid point relating to last month's theme of the healthy mind and healthy business, because having a healthy business and a healthy mindset allows you to be that flexible when these things come in and to adapt accordingly. Because you have that flexibility within your healthy structure that you have in your business to adapt to those things.
[00:05:33] I think it's very important not to become a slave to the emails and things, you know, when they come in. You've got to make sure that they fit into your organization. You've got to remember that you are judging them on merit. You're judging them on seriousness because, you know, not every organization is going to be as healthy as yours.
[00:05:53] And so therefore, maybe operating under that, you know, everything is urgent mindset that we were talking about earlier last month, where we, you know, where we find a situation that everything is urgent and therefore nothing is urgent. And that becomes a big thing for companies. And a lot of companies fall into that trap. And not falling into that trap is very important. Yeah, I've said to my team several times, you know, don't confuse emotion for urgency.
[00:06:22] A lot of times, other folks will show up in a frenzy and you're like, you have to actually be a good sort of advisor and guide and steward of that moment to make sure that you reflect that, you know, okay, I'm here. I've heard you. Yes, I acknowledge there's a challenge. There's an opportunity of the essence.
[00:06:47] But we get to also be thoughtful, considerate, and appropriate for what we know all the other realities are going to be around the delivery of that service. We want to make sure that our project team, when we win all this business, is not going to be overwhelmed and wish we hadn't done it and is appreciative of that as well. So it's got to definitely balance.
[00:07:13] You know, I think that's part of, in these moments, communicating that, yes, I can get you the information, the proposal, help you price this. Also need to know that, like, I am doing a few of these and I'm not trying to add false urgency or pressure, but we're going to be resourcing these as they get committed.
[00:07:34] And we may not be able to start the work for four to six weeks, you know, depending on where this opportunity comes through at the end of the day. So just be aware from a resourcing and expectations perspective. This is the thing, isn't it? Is that communication is what makes a big difference? Because if a customer comes to you saying, I need this, I want this, their expectation and your expectation may be very different because your organization is going, yeah, that's fine. We work on a six week cycle.
[00:08:04] So when this comes in, it's going to be in six weeks time. We'll start working on this. Whereas the customer could be focused on a six hour cycle and go, right, OK, by the end of the day, I'll have some information from this company. I sent it to them. Why haven't they sent it? Why haven't they come back yet? Yeah. But having that dialogue, having that conversation very often results in people going, oh, OK, well, actually, because of our business circumstances, that's not going to work for us. We're going to have to go somewhere else. And that's OK.
[00:08:32] Because the last thing you want is a situation where somebody comes along and even though you're able to deliver a really perfect solution to their business, it's going to come with an air of negativity because they have felt that they were waiting too long for it or that you weren't communicating. And so it puts you in a sort of negative situation before you even start.
[00:08:54] And I see a lot of organizations that I work with falling into that trap that are too afraid to tell their customers that we're busy. We can't get back to you for a couple of weeks. They're like, oh, no, no, we've got to. OK, they're interested in working with us. Let's just keep them on board. Let's keep them on board. And the problem is that that doesn't serve them in the best way. It doesn't serve the company. It doesn't serve the customers in the right way. And it ends up ultimately creating a negative situation.
[00:09:19] However, I will say, I just want to say very important, any companies listening to this podcast, don't make too much of a change in your business because you're keeping me in work. So please keep doing that. That's right. That's right. That's right. If you didn't have these challenges, I wouldn't need to call in the experts. But I was going to add that there are all kinds of businesses that operate successfully because of that fast turnaround time.
[00:09:47] And their cultures have established a quick response, quick action situation. We've got a client who, if they don't have a certain product available, it's almost no impact to them to upgrade you. And so they always say yes. And that's the culture. And that's the mindset is we're solution driven. We're here to make sure the customer always hears yes. Of course, we don't have that.
[00:10:15] We need to be thoughtful and we need to fit things into our resource plan. And we can't always say yes in the same way that they can. So there's a culture clash there. But they're very good about understanding that. And we're very good about making sure we're clear on what those expectations are so it works really well. But that's a good realization that not everybody's in the same kind of dynamic that you are.
[00:10:38] And what I would like to say as well is that you have done unexpectedly a very good job of transitioning last month's theme into this month's theme. Because I believe that as we go into the focus of this month's theme where we're focusing on complex sales and this week's episode on team selling,
[00:11:01] I think one of the most important things when it comes to team selling is about how you win complex deals without creating internal chaos. And so having that healthy business, I had not seen that link. But when you start telling your story there and we started discussing it, it was very clear that there is a very important link there.
[00:11:23] And I think this is important that it's one of the things that we reflect on in this particular topic is that you don't lose complex deals to competitors. It's usually lost to misalignment and mismanagement of the deal within your own business. Yes. Episode over. That's far too quick.
[00:11:52] We've got 10 more minutes we need to do. Okay. So, okay. Let's make sure, because I think we were very quickly segueing in and we're about to carry on this very energetic conversation. Let's define team selling. So what is it, Andy? Well, I think what I should start with is what it is not. And that's often where people fall into the trap. We go, oh, team selling. And something comes into their head.
[00:12:21] It's like, oh, there's a group of us. We're all going to go into a customer together. We're all going to sell, you know, talk about our speciality and have a conversation with a customer. And that's not what it is. It's very important. It's not about bringing more people to the meeting.
[00:12:38] It's about utilizing the resources within your organization and working together as a team to build a system where each department, each element are involved and contributing towards the decision that helps to reduce the risks within your business. And provide the optimum value for the commercial circumstances that you're finding yourself within.
[00:13:07] Yeah. I love that. Once upon a time, I definitely operated from the perspective of we have to have the same number of people or plus one or something like that to match the other, you know. And then I'll take this slide and then you take that slide and everybody together is selling the same thing. That is not team selling. It's the opposite. Yeah.
[00:13:37] Just to reiterate, it's making sure that the folks that you have involved in the sales process are there with purpose and intention and that there is a role that they play that is distinct and unique in order to support the collective decision making process that is happening on the client side. You're going to have people from different departments.
[00:14:00] I mean, in our case recently, we had operations, we had finance, we had marketing, we had, you know, the digital team with the tech team. We have facilities, we had procurement, we had logistics because everybody's got some kind of touch point into that ultimate solution that they're all asking for. And they want to make sure that their that their needs are represented.
[00:14:23] And there's everything from needing to sell the vision to needing to underwrite the technical capability to needing to know that you've got the right technical capabilities. And so by making sure that we're really intentional about who's going to represent each of those different nuances. That is what team selling is all about.
[00:14:47] Yeah, I think that summed it up very nicely because the misconception of thinking that you're going to win over a customer because you have the most people in the room or you have the biggest slide deck or something like that is not going to add any value. It's very much about that.
[00:15:15] I mean, the people who win who win big complex deals are the people who provide the most clarity for their customer in the complex situation because they're in a complex situation that you're helping them to solve. You don't help them to solve that by creating more chaos and introducing more people. You do that by having a team behind you. Yes, for sure.
[00:15:35] But, you know, having a clear focus and a clear outcome for the customer and creating that clarity for them in that circumstance that they're in and with the situation that they're trying to solve or with the goal that they're trying to achieve. I just want to say, so tomorrow morning, actually, I'm meeting with a big defense contractor. Oh, yeah.
[00:16:03] So I'll reveal about who it is I'm meeting with. But they're very well known in the space that they're in. And so therefore, it is a very complex discussion, complex deal, complex situation that they're trying to solve. And initially, the client that I was going in with, they had 11 people that they wanted to take into this meeting. And I said, no, no. Who's leading this? And they were all, you know, being all very clear.
[00:16:31] Well, I'm leading this part of it and I'm leading this. No. Who's leading it overall? And they had no one overall. And I said, right, you need to find someone who is going to take on the overall. Oh, but I don't know about this. And I don't know about it. It doesn't matter. Take some responsibility. Lead this and be prepared to say, I will find that out. But make sure that you have the resources within your team to be able to find the answers to those things. You don't have to solve all of their problems in that one meeting.
[00:17:00] But what you do need to do is you need to give them enough clarity and enough confidence that you are the person who is able to solve. Those problems. Yeah. Next week, the week down the line, whatever it may be. And so now it is myself and one of the main people from the team who are going into this meeting. And there are 10 people from the customer side. Yeah. But it was only going to be two of us.
[00:17:27] And the slide deck now consists of three slides instead of 300 slides, which was almost before. Yeah. So I like that. So just to reiterate, as soon as you said, I was like, oh, yeah, very good point. Was you need somebody that is the owner of the entire opportunity. Yes. And so it's not like this fractured ownership. Well, eye on this part and eye on that part.
[00:17:53] You have one person who's ultimately responsible for moving the deal forward and coordinating those internal resources and whatnot. Secondly, it's not one and done. We're here to make sure that you're not matching resources in that meeting against the prospect. You're showing up representing the capabilities that you have so that you can show where you're able to lean forward.
[00:18:21] And maybe if they can't all be available, that's okay. Because you're ready to have, in fact, you should expect to have follow-up conversations where you can lean in more on those other areas of capability. So you know what? We're going to do a tabletop exercise and we're going to structure out a hypothetical architecture. We're going to go a little bit deeper and make sure that you're comfortable with the tech stack.
[00:18:46] We're going to go high level and talk about our approach to creative work. And those are going to be opportunities where we get a little bit more one-on-one time with the statement. Do what you can to engage the individuals on the other side more discreetly and bring them all back together at the same time. Because there's no such thing as one final decision maker anymore. No, that's right. That's right. And that's the same within the selling organization as well.
[00:19:15] This is the key. You have that champion, for want of a better word. They're the person within the organization who's championing this agreement, this deal, this solution towards this customer. But there are many contributors to that. There has to be. And it's a complex business element. And it's going to have many factors around it.
[00:19:44] One thing that's often lost, though, is the commercial team, sales team, or the key accounts team, depending on how the organization is structured. They will often forget having an executive sponsor as part of this team. And I think that is an important part of it. And having someone very senior within the organization. And that's the organization. Not necessarily who's going to get involved and start sabotaging it and going, oh, how are you doing with this? And why haven't you closed it yet? And why haven't you closed it yet?
[00:20:13] But someone who's actually there and is going to support the time and the resources within the organization, that they are supporting the contribution that every department needs to make in order to drive this forward. And with a full expectation that they may be a long journey to get there, that they don't have that focus on the short-term wins. You know, when are we going to close this deal? Why haven't you done it yet?
[00:20:42] Kind of mindset that they are actually more there to help support the champion and drive things further forward. Yeah, I like that. And I was also going to say that when you're in a team selling situation, the seller is the one that needs to make sure that they're establishing the process. That they're actually helping drive this towards a decision.
[00:21:11] If you expect that that committee, that decision-making committee, that buying committee on the other side, on the buying side of the table, has got themselves organized to consolidate feedback and get alignment, you'll be a little bit naive. The situation most likely is that there was an expectation that consensus will emerge and that will not happen.
[00:21:39] The selling team needs to acknowledge where there is disagreement. We need to emphasize and talk openly with a core group on both sides of the table about where some of the dissent is coming from, where some of the support is coming from, and have real honest conversations about what it's going to take to drive this towards a decision one way or another.
[00:22:05] But the ownership for working towards getting closer to a decision is on the selling team. You just made me really happy. I just feel contented and satisfied listening to you there. I mean, it's so important that, especially in these more complex deals, that you stop letting the customers' internal decisions become your pipeline. That you drive that, that you have a structure, that you have a plan, that you're taking further forward.
[00:22:34] And, you know, I think it's quite amusing, really, because we got to 11 minutes in this episode and we were like, OK, pretty much episode done. You know, we've summarized it quite well. And then we've continued now. We're at 23, 24 minutes. I think ultimately what we've discussed here is clear that complex deals are complex and they can be discussed in a very complex way.
[00:23:03] But ultimately, what we're looking at is the fact that complex deals are won by clarity and discipline. And, you know, you need to build that right team around it. You need to assign clear roles and you need to make sure that you're aligned around a mutual success plan. And when I say mutual, I'm talking about every department, but also the customer as well.
[00:23:28] And if you can build that, then you sort of secure that buyer and seller mutual next step each time you meet, each time you have these conversations. Then you're turning that complexity becomes an advantage because you are turning it into a process that the buyer can buy into and that the seller can actually communicate internally and externally.
[00:23:56] And ultimately, your complex deal, whilst it will remain complex, it remains manageable and you're more likely to win that deal over anyone else. And there's no way a complex selling process doesn't mean you're like it always means you're selling a complex solution. And if you can show your capability to navigate through the complex sale, they'll have confidence that you can deliver the complex solution. I love that. Thank you so much. That's fantastic.
[00:24:23] And if you want to hear other fantastic things that Scott has to contribute to these episodes, which he has many, then please do go to Tea and Timbits.com where you will find many ways to listen back to all of our old episodes. And you'll find a way to interact with us on social media and send us your thoughts and ideas and questions that we will address or ignore on the show. Thank you very much, Scott. Take care, everybody. Bye.