Entrepreneurs: The Classic Dilemma

[00:00:18] I guess it's my turn, eh?

[00:00:20] It's a whole new body.

[00:00:23] Continuing in our sunny summer mood, I am one of your host Scott coming to you from Toronto.

[00:00:31] And I'm Andy, the other host coming to you from the United Kingdom.

[00:00:35] And I just wanted to say it's still continuing with a bit of an odd to summer.

[00:00:42] I'm very hopeful that we're going to be getting some consistently good weather soon

[00:00:46] because I'm supposed to be going to a barbecue after we've recorded this.

[00:00:51] Very good. We're also having a barbecue this year.

[00:00:54] I have to compare recipes there.

[00:00:57] I was also slightly distracted at the beginning there because I can hear downstairs somebody's being told to get off the iPad.

[00:01:05] We'll see if that boils up.

[00:01:08] I won't tell you what's getting on downstairs here.

[00:01:13] Hey!

[00:01:14] Well, that sounded more ominous than it was meant to.

[00:01:19] Well, this leaves everybody in suspense.

[00:01:23] Everybody to tea and timbits, a podcast about global perspectives on this development to healthy prosper.

[00:01:32] We're doing a little series on being an entrepreneur

[00:01:35] and some of those challenges and opportunities.

[00:01:40] Today we are going to go through the theme of the dilemma that classic entrepreneurs dilemma of working on the business versus working in the business.

[00:01:53] And we are going to do our first top five list-style podcast episodes.

[00:01:59] We'll see how this works out.

[00:02:02] Andy and I have not compared notes. We both have a list of things that we would do to sort of address this classic challenge

[00:02:10] and we'll see if we have just the exact same list and this is a very boring episode or whether there's some divert.

[00:02:17] I just want to say as well for the purpose of the listeners that I was very reluctant about writing down the list.

[00:02:23] There was a whole thing where I told him he had to actually write it down.

[00:02:27] And he was just looking at the Scott and AJ.

[00:02:34] I did. I wrote a list.

[00:02:37] I wrote a list.

[00:02:38] I think the title is self-evident working on the business versus working for the business.

[00:02:47] Andy, just give us your riff on the topic what that means.

[00:02:51] I will. But first before we do that, I'd like to tell you a little story or a development of the story.

[00:02:57] I'd cast this man.

[00:02:58] That's right. Yeah, that's what we're doing in a podcast. We're not just having a normal chair.

[00:03:02] But this is actually concluding from a story that you and I had while you were around at the cabin.

[00:03:09] So whilst the listeners don't know the full context of it, I'll give a bit of framework because I wanted to tell you a bit more of a development of it.

[00:03:16] Essentially, working with a company who took the, let's say, the open door policy to extremes by removing all of the doors in the office.

[00:03:28] Removing them entirely, taking them away, not just having an open door policy. It was a no door policy.

[00:03:36] But anyway, as an update to that already quite extreme policy, they have now taken it further.

[00:03:42] They had the beginning of the summer, a bit of a session where they actually destroyed the doors.

[00:03:50] So they got like, what did they call a rage room? They called it a rage room.

[00:03:55] Everyone had EPA safety equipment on with their destroying the doors.

[00:04:00] But not only that, they then actually taken down some of the walls in the office building as well, all the ones that are not, you know, load bearing itself.

[00:04:09] So they've taken down walls, taken down, you know, taken away offices, taken away the doors. So it's now almost an entirely open plan office.

[00:04:18] And of course, initially there were a bit worried about noise and things like that. But ultimately, it has so far increased efficiency very well.

[00:04:30] It's they've introduced also an open policy of open calendars. So everybody knows what everyone's doing at any time.

[00:04:38] So there's no mystery or what's the boss doing or where's my manager or where's my colleagues, everyone knows who is doing what, where and when,

[00:04:45] which is of course improved people's calendar management as well.

[00:04:49] It's powered the employees to, you know, to be a lot more open and feel that they're contributing and that they are all one team working towards the same goal.

[00:04:58] And we're going to be a part of the process of working on the business and ultimately it's stopped people feeling overwhelmed and isolated and that they all feel that they can talk to everybody else.

[00:05:11] So, you know, the most junior person is just as welcome to go and talk to the CEO as anyone else.

[00:05:18] It's really, really sort of extreme approach to doing things.

[00:05:22] It isn't normal, but it's worked out really, really well. And I'm really keen to see how this continues because there are companies that have open, you know, open offices, but

[00:05:32] But it doesn't work as well as it has done here. But I think the whole creation of that open environment has been what has created that, that ethos, because they all feel that they were part of creating something together.

[00:05:44] And so therefore they all embrace it in a very good way.

[00:05:46] We do have an open plan office and, and I often personally get banished to the room with the floor because I'm so loud and I'm on the phone on the phone.

[00:05:58] The developers are like, oh my god, I can't even think when Scott's talking about it.

[00:06:02] But I love that story.

[00:06:04] I really hope they got some social content, some video of that rade room.

[00:06:08] Yeah, I think it's, I think it's on their socials but I don't know whether it fits with their business.

[00:06:14] Business brand. So who knows?

[00:06:18] But yeah, though, it coming back to your question, working in the business versus working on the business, I mean working in the business for anyone who's not to sure on a definition.

[00:06:27] It involves the day-to-day operations and tasks.

[00:06:31] Essentially, you know, being in the trenches, doing the work, working on the business that's focusing on the strategic development, the growth and the sort of future vision.

[00:06:43] Stepping back to see the big picture as a person.

[00:06:46] And so I would say that I've seen sort of entrepreneurs who do land squarely on one side of this equation or the other.

[00:06:53] You, you start of the business and you are an entrepreneur because you're good at the delivery of the business.

[00:07:00] And so you like to work in the business.

[00:07:03] And then there are the other ones who just want to build a business and then don't focus as much on the delivery.

[00:07:10] And I think when you have, when you're in one camper, the other, it can lead to unique challenges.

[00:07:17] And when you're spreading yourself and trying to do both, it also has its own set of problems.

[00:07:22] So here's my first question for you before you get into your list.

[00:07:26] When I list, okay, I know.

[00:07:29] But this is why I had a slightly different approach to the list than you.

[00:07:34] Because you told me I had to write a list.

[00:07:37] So I did.

[00:07:39] But I've put it into three categories and I've done those.

[00:07:41] The first category is, you know, the pitfalls of working in the business and the benefits of working on the business.

[00:07:47] And then debalancing of that. So I've got a couple of points on each of those.

[00:07:52] But I'm serious when you said that you had five points, I was like, well, where has he taken those five points from?

[00:07:58] And so I'm looking forward to hearing your list and understanding how you've done that.

[00:08:02] Well, I think we should go like, like, you know, one point each.

[00:08:07] And as match, okay.

[00:08:09] You don't get to just listen to my five and then agree.

[00:08:11] And then we're done with the episode. I need you to be producing some content in your interview.

[00:08:15] I see you coat my plan there. Here's my list.

[00:08:21] All right, first on calendar it.

[00:08:25] Whatever it is, if you are not good at one of the two,

[00:08:30] you have to put it in your calendar now the pitfall and I don't know how to do this.

[00:08:34] I have days and times blocked out for working on client deliverables, working on the business, doing content.

[00:08:43] And I generally have some labels on every day of the week and where I try to remind myself that this day should be more inclined towards producing this kind of work.

[00:08:56] And then I have some other very specific slots on my calendar that are like, nope, this is an hour where I am going to, you know, produce this, this specific outcome.

[00:09:06] And so it's really easy to calendar I think working in the business. It's less, less successful, calendaring time to work on the business.

[00:09:20] So anyway, but that's that's my first suggestion for this situation.

[00:09:26] That's very good. That was one of mine I've written that down as time management.

[00:09:31] So I'm like, leading specific time to work on strategic goals and operational tasks.

[00:09:35] So, you know, already, yes, God, I agree with you.

[00:09:39] First one.

[00:09:41] As a good start, delegation is my first one there.

[00:09:46] So trust your team with the daily operations and empowered them to take ownership and make decisions so that you can focus on this strategic and guiding them and leading them with a solid foundation.

[00:09:58] So I had, I called that one out sourcing it.

[00:10:03] So delegate get somebody else to do the work.

[00:10:07] Now you can also, because I was like,

[00:10:11] What if you really like doing the work?

[00:10:14] Right?

[00:10:14] So what if your strength as an entrepreneur is actually the deliverable?

[00:10:18] You need to outsource to somebody else, the business building.

[00:10:22] So you can also delegate that part of it. You don't have to be the one who says, well, it's my business. Why have to work on it?

[00:10:28] You can actually get somebody else to do that for you.

[00:10:32] It's true.

[00:10:33] Good day.

[00:10:37] Okay.

[00:10:39] We're lying here.

[00:10:41] So the next part of my list then my third one is is finding an accountability partner or

[00:10:48] I can.

[00:10:49] I'm sitting down as like a mentor, but making sure that and I think this one probably applies more to somebody who's trying to work find the time to work on the business.

[00:11:00] It's very hard to even if you have a partnership as an entrepreneur to have an unbiased source of feedback and reflection.

[00:11:14] So having an accountability partner.

[00:11:16] How many things are you going to include under this one heading?

[00:11:20] Oh, I guess.

[00:11:21] Okay. Fine. There's my point. What's yours?

[00:11:25] You had a accountability. You had feedback. You had development. You had resources.

[00:11:31] You heard the evening shit.

[00:11:32] I mean, that's that's a lot of my points you've taken there.

[00:11:38] No, my my was going to be feedback mechanisms as the next one actually implementing regular feedback mechanisms for both customers and employees.

[00:11:47] And the reason for that is to ensure continuous improvement learning and development within the business.

[00:11:56] There you go.

[00:11:57] Well then what go to your list next? What's next on your list?

[00:12:00] All right. I will do.

[00:12:02] Because I stole them all.

[00:12:06] No, I think one key area is leadership development and it's not.

[00:12:11] It's not that not just about developing the leaders but it's about cultivating a leadership mindset within the team.

[00:12:19] So that even at the lowest level people feel responsible for what it is that they're doing.

[00:12:26] They're taking an ownership of their tasks, their role, their responsibilities,

[00:12:31] which ties very neatly into your accountability one.

[00:12:36] You know, people are working autonomously but they are given the skills and the ability to be able to, you know,

[00:12:44] to lead that and to have that responsibility,

[00:12:47] but they are still held accountable for the for the outcome and delivery of those things.

[00:12:52] Well, like when you said leadership and developing that, I went to my next point on my list,

[00:12:57] which was professional development.

[00:13:02] And I'll try to articulate this without it blending into five more.

[00:13:06] I thought, if it's very easy to think of professional development in terms of I need to go work on a particular skill.

[00:13:13] So I'm a software developer and I'm going to go to a software developer conference.

[00:13:17] And I'm going to learn about the new technologies and the things that I should be incorporating into my work.

[00:13:21] I think it's very easy to think about going to professional development that provide a very tangible tactical skill.

[00:13:28] And it's often overlooked that there are tons of professional development opportunities for managing a business, working on a business, being an entrepreneur.

[00:13:36] And a lot of those we've talked about before mastermind groups, it's collaborating and just having some space to have some other accountability

[00:13:47] and working and it's almost also going back to calendaring.

[00:13:51] It's like dedicated time to work on the business in the right way.

[00:13:57] So professional development was sort of my parallel to your leadership.

[00:14:01] Yeah, and I also had a section on the professional development, which was just focused on investing in your own learning and attending workshops and so on.

[00:14:10] And exactly as you've said, which is very, very good.

[00:14:13] I think one thing that whilst it ties in with your original calendaring is the daily operations check-ins.

[00:14:25] This is something that I've used in a lot of the companies I've worked with.

[00:14:31] Because you want to try and get the, you know, the more senior people who have strategic roles to be focused on strategy and not getting bogged down into the business.

[00:14:38] But it's also very important, you know, you can't build a strategy for a business unless you know what's going on in that business.

[00:14:44] Yes, you know what's happening in the customer's world and so on.

[00:14:47] So setting time aside each day to check in on the operations without getting bogged down into the details.

[00:14:52] I think is also a very, very important part of balancing this working on versus working in the business.

[00:14:58] And I think the, the bottom of my list here I hadn't, I hadn't measured it and I think that that news similar to your feedback check-ins.

[00:15:10] It's like if you don't have mechanisms set up, I think on either side of this equation to just, you know, unemotionally know if things are moving in the right direction.

[00:15:22] And are we profitable is the business growing?

[00:15:26] Are people doing the work? Are they, it's their time being utilized properly? Are they taking the necessary behavioral activities that we expect with them in that role?

[00:15:35] So there's a part of doing the work and managing the business that you know if you don't measure it, you can't manage it.

[00:15:41] So making sure that you have those structures in place doesn't have to be terribly comprehensive start with one add a second one on and on you go.

[00:15:50] That's very good. Is that all five now that we've done like I don't know if this is like top five or top 50, is that right now.

[00:15:58] As with anything I added one more, do you have any more?

[00:16:01] I do, I just have one more which I think is it's very important is that it's it's very, very important to continually.

[00:16:11] Be clear with the rest of the business and with yourselves what your strategies are and being able to change those based on the feedback and the market changes.

[00:16:21] That communication element I suppose is essential because it's all very well if you as a leader in a strategic role or going off and developing and working on the business.

[00:16:31] Because you've managed to detect yourself from working in the business, but then you've got to remember that there are people who are still working in the business and need to know what's going on.

[00:16:40] I like it the one that I added to my list as we were talking was was detachment and I think it's very easy to feel like you need to be everywhere at all times.

[00:16:50] And you have to allow yourself to detach from and had the risk of maybe something falling through the cracks, but at the benefit of it being done better than you could or being done at least as well.

[00:17:02] And then freeing up more time for you to focus on something more important.

[00:17:07] How do we do that?

[00:17:08] I think that's very good, very good conclusion to the challenges associated with working on and working in the business which has an entrepreneur.

[00:17:18] You've got to do a little bit of both and that's what we've said. We're not saying don't do one and don't do the other.

[00:17:24] It's important to do both, but it's important to do both in the right way and in a structured way.

[00:17:29] Yeah, and recognize where your strengths lie, get in a health-ordinated work on developing those, put some structures in place to keep yourself accountable.

[00:17:38] And by doing this, I mean you allow your business to sort of have immediate performance success and ongoing basis, but you've also got long-term growth in mind and abilities as well built in.

[00:17:54] And that's what you want, especially as start up and even as an existing business, this can be a challenge and it's very important to embrace these things.

[00:18:03] Love it.

[00:18:04] All right.

[00:18:05] Thanks everybody.

[00:18:07] Please head on over to tantembits.com to get a hold of us.

[00:18:12] See our catalog of backup episodes and submit any feedback or topic ideas that you might have.

[00:18:18] Thanks as always Andy.

[00:18:19] Thank you, Scott.