Process & Culture: Let's Get Tactical

[00:00:18] Hello everybody, I am your host Scott coming to you from Toronto.

[00:00:22] And I am Andy as usual coming to you from the United Kingdom.

[00:00:27] Good to see you Andy.

[00:00:29] Likewise.

[00:00:29] I'm reacquainted with StreamYard here as I click various buttons and discover what I'm supposed to be doing.

[00:00:36] You've been doing a great job with it for a very long time.

[00:00:39] It's been going to be a long time after a year.

[00:00:42] We are the Tea and Timbits podcast, global perspectives on business development to help

[00:00:48] you prosper.

[00:00:49] We are talking in the month of December about process and culture fit.

[00:00:56] I think we figured that sort of rounding out the year with a bit of reflection,

[00:01:01] not on specific business development activities, but more about the infrastructure and the

[00:01:10] and sort of the foundation that you need to have in place for that kind of success

[00:01:15] was worth chit-chatting about.

[00:01:19] We talked last month, so to sort of tee that all up about the importance of process and

[00:01:27] culture and how those things are going to work best when carefully balanced.

[00:01:34] It was last week only, actually.

[00:01:36] Not last month.

[00:01:37] Yeah.

[00:01:38] That's a very good point.

[00:01:40] It's been a busy week for you, clearly.

[00:01:43] Last week feels like a month.

[00:01:45] I thought I could get away with it for a sec by saying, well, last week was last month,

[00:01:48] but no, no, we're into the second week of December.

[00:01:51] Yeah.

[00:01:51] Yeah.

[00:01:52] Yeah.

[00:01:52] I'll stop talking.

[00:01:53] Andy, do you have a story that you want to share so we can get on with this one?

[00:01:56] I do.

[00:01:57] I do.

[00:01:58] I do.

[00:01:58] This was just a few weeks back and it's not anything too big, but it caught my attention.

[00:02:08] I thought it would be an interesting one for the listeners because I know that some of

[00:02:12] the people who listen, this will be relevant too.

[00:02:16] I was in this company, be as vague as possible, but anyway, the sales manager, he was a guy

[00:02:26] who had a very demotivated team and he was sending out motivational emails to the team.

[00:02:35] And he would do it every Monday because he felt that having the weekly meetings were a bit dull

[00:02:42] because they were always focused on the numbers and things like that. And he thought, well, you

[00:02:46] know, I need to get the energy up in the team. And, um, and he, so he sort of sent these

[00:02:50] motivational emails and I saw that sounds really good. Um, and can I have a look at one of them?

[00:02:55] And it was really long and really boring and there was no way anyone was going to read it.

[00:03:00] It was just like that. Oh, typical, his emails coming again, you know, and, and he said,

[00:03:05] you know, what can I do with it? And I said, well, just stop sending them.

[00:03:08] Yeah. And, um, and so he did. And, uh, and he was like, what should I do instead? Uh, cause I need

[00:03:15] to motivate the team. And I said, well, there are other ways of motivating the team, but I think you

[00:03:20] should still send a motivating message to them, but do it in a different way. Um, don't, don't keep

[00:03:25] sending them emails. Um, so what he did is he started writing handwritten post-it notes and putting them

[00:03:31] on their desk or on their computer. Um, and, uh, and they were a bit generic the first week. They're

[00:03:37] all very similar, you know, sort of the same thing. I like, you know, good job last week,

[00:03:41] keep it up kind of thing. Um, but, uh, but by last week he'd, he'd really sort of gone a bit more

[00:03:46] personal and it was like, you know, Oh, Sherry, you know, you've done a, uh, that prospect you reached

[00:03:51] out to last week seems really engaged, keep it up. Um, just little things like that, just,

[00:03:55] but actually specific and personal. And I mean, you can really see the energy now this week. You

[00:04:01] can really see the team is actually gone. Oh, this is quite nice. Yeah. I mean, it's just that,

[00:04:07] that little personal touch has made a bit of a difference. Um, I've said that he can potentially

[00:04:12] now start reintroducing the emails, but they have to be individual. They have to be personalized and

[00:04:16] they have to be much shorter. Um, because of course not all the team are in all the time, but, uh,

[00:04:21] yeah, it was, uh, it was just a, just a little approach. And I think that's the thing. It,

[00:04:27] it doesn't have to be all about these grand gestures and, you know, lots of words and perfectly

[00:04:32] crafted emails, you know, just turning up in a way that connects with people is sometimes all that

[00:04:37] matters. Yeah. I like it. I I'm going to guess that for this person in their head, they had imagined

[00:04:46] a very different outcome and they had sort of built up the story for themselves around

[00:04:51] how these tomes were going to land and inspire greatness. And there's probably borrowing on,

[00:05:00] on some, you know, personal life experience or narrative they'd seen in a film or something like

[00:05:07] that. But any chance was this person, um, uh, considered, you know, themselves an athlete or,

[00:05:13] or was this a locker room kind of, uh, um, uh, it's possible. It's possible. They could have

[00:05:20] qualified for that category. Yeah. Right. I had a feeling sort of, it's sort of, it's sort of smacked

[00:05:26] of the like coach giving the big speech kind of moment, but then doing it before every single game.

[00:05:32] And, um, I don't think, I think it can work, but not by email, but it doesn't land very well. Does it?

[00:05:38] Um, thanks for sharing Andy. Uh, we, we're going to talk, we're going to, we're going to kind

[00:05:44] of carry on quite, um, uh, continuously from the conversation we had last week. Um, and, and,

[00:05:52] you know, you made the point after we, um, finished the recording that a lot of times we talk around

[00:05:58] the, the, the concept or we talk, you know, broadly, um, and we wanted to make sure we were

[00:06:04] also getting into specifics and steps and tactics that can be useful for, um, achieving and enabling

[00:06:11] some of what we pontificate about. Um, so Andy, you mentioned that there was, you know, just as we

[00:06:18] were signing off, you know, that, you know, there's a whole bunch of other things that you

[00:06:21] didn't get to, but we sort of hit time. Um, and, and that we wanted to get into some more of the,

[00:06:28] the steps that you can take to build process, enable process, get the culture right. So what,

[00:06:35] what was on your mind that, uh, we didn't get enough time to get into on the last one?

[00:06:40] Well, I think it's to some extent more of a general thing that, uh, that I feel when we're

[00:06:46] talking about process, um, to us who use processes quite a lot, but it, it, you know, we, we talk

[00:06:53] around and we talk about maybe the outcomes of the process and the, you know, the impact that,

[00:06:58] uh, that following our process has, but we don't often give the tips to people to actually set up

[00:07:04] their own process who maybe don't have one at the moment. And so I think that's, that's something

[00:07:09] that we should be throwing into our episodes and, uh, and offering to people. And I think, um,

[00:07:15] I think little things like, um, you know, just giving some tips on, uh, how to, you know,

[00:07:21] how to put some steps in place to actually, uh, define a cultural fit for example, like last week,

[00:07:27] you know, first thing is of course, identifying what your core values are. Um, you know, what

[00:07:33] behaviors define your company culture, um, you know, things like transparency, innovation,

[00:07:40] customer first focus, whatever it may be, you know, so things like that. Um, but, but ensure that

[00:07:44] they're communicated clearly in job descriptions, in onboarding processes and in the daily operations.

[00:07:51] So people are continually reinforced and very, very aware of what the company culture is. Um,

[00:07:59] I think, you know, the other step is of course, standardizing the hiring process. So making sure

[00:08:03] that regardless of which department it is that's hiring, there's a structured interview process that

[00:08:08] includes an element for, um, uh, for defining a person's cultural fit, uh, to the team that can be,

[00:08:16] you know, difficult to define, but, you know, things like describing a time when, you know,

[00:08:20] when you worked in a team environment and what role you played and how did you handle receiving

[00:08:25] feedback, things like that can, can often help to understand how a person responds to certain

[00:08:30] circumstances, gives you an idea of how that person would perform within your team and in your,

[00:08:36] your business. Um, you can sometimes include, you know, practical exercises and case studies and

[00:08:43] things like that to, to help people reflect on real life scenarios that they've been involved with,

[00:08:48] um, which allows you to evaluate behavior in a different way. Uh, I touched on involving the team.

[00:08:55] Um, and we talked around that. Uh, but I think, I think when it comes to things like, um, you know,

[00:09:02] onboarding certainly new employees, uh, doing team interviews, um, or having a shadow shadow day,

[00:09:10] those things can be incredibly valuable. And, um, it also, um, sends a good signal to the team as well

[00:09:19] that, um, that you're respecting them and their opinions about things. And, um, and they will then

[00:09:25] be able to feedback and feel part of that, uh, that process, which again, helps to reinforce a good

[00:09:30] company culture. I have some questions. How have you got a few more points or are we only scratched the

[00:09:35] surface? No, go on, go on. Um, we'll start with your questions. Um, I'm going to wind back to sort of where

[00:09:41] you started, which was defining core values. Uh, I, I, I think that's worth just sort of making sure we didn't

[00:09:47] skip right past that point. It is so essential to make sure that you're able to say, listen, you're

[00:09:53] going to have to do a little bit of cultural evaluation for yourself. Um, but I want you to know

[00:09:59] that this, these are the core values and, um, and it should give you a sense of what you're coming into.

[00:10:05] Um, and, um, and, and you said like define them and be clear about them, but I think it's just as

[00:10:13] important to be regularly communicating those and reinforcing them because it's one thing to have

[00:10:18] them down on paper. It's another thing to live them. And I've seen many times the statements that are

[00:10:26] just platitudes. They're not supported by action behavior culture. Um, and so we say one thing,

[00:10:32] but we behave a different way. So, um, so, so values without practicing those values. Um, I think we've

[00:10:40] all seen, um, that failure. Uh, so I, I wanted to, um, sort of, um, add, add my two cents on that point.

[00:10:49] Um, do you agree? Absolutely. Absolutely. I know that was, um, that was one,

[00:10:56] one of the things I touched on as well as the importance of communicating those values and of

[00:11:00] course, making sure that they are, you know, clearly defined in, in, in, in job descriptions,

[00:11:05] um, you know, customer onboarding and, um, you know, in, in daily life, daily operations.

[00:11:12] I think this is where a leader has a lot of responsibility to these things. And, um, um,

[00:11:19] you know, I, I like to remind the team how we do one thing is how we do everything. So that,

[00:11:24] that, uh, this isn't about like, do it this way when we're in front of a client, but do it this way

[00:11:30] internally so that when we're in, you don't have to switch gears. It doesn't make any difference.

[00:11:33] Yeah, exactly. Way of doing things. Um, so yeah, like, you know, we're, we are all about process

[00:11:40] and structure and, and there's a, one thing leads to another is a very stepwise sort of execution,

[00:11:45] um, that, that delivery that we, that we follow. I mentioned last time with flexibility too,

[00:11:51] but when we're doing other things, when we're executing, you know, sales calls and, um, and,

[00:11:58] and whatnot, if I, if I see an absence of that same sort of intentionality, it really,

[00:12:04] it really gets under my skin quickly. So then you talk about, um, standardized hiring.

[00:12:11] Um, yes, I did. And, um, I like that for sure. My caveat that I was going to add is standardized

[00:12:22] for the same role. I think you need to, I, we've tried to sort of fit the same hiring process,

[00:12:28] um, uh, around different job functions. Um, in our case, we've got technical people and developers,

[00:12:36] we've got creative people, we've got account people, we've got sales people and we, and we had

[00:12:42] established a really robust capacity and capability for doing our technical interviews

[00:12:48] than hiring a developer. And we sort of tried to figure out the right way to layer that into some

[00:12:53] of the other roles. And we even tried it that way a few times years ago and thought, well,

[00:12:59] it worked there. This must be the right way to do it here, but it doesn't. Right. So be really

[00:13:04] careful about, you know, what worked for one job function isn't going to work for another one.

[00:13:10] And it's just as important to think about what your process on hiring standardization is going to be

[00:13:15] for each role and not just kind of roll into, um, the next interview for the next function,

[00:13:21] assuming it's going to work the same way. Fair point. Fair point. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, um,

[00:13:30] I do think that, uh, that a framework, a standardized framework, um, that is tailored to the individual

[00:13:38] departments and divisions, um, works well in a large corporate, but I think in a smaller business,

[00:13:45] you can tailor it a lot more. Well, I mean, that's a good point. Like, like our technical

[00:13:51] interviews are situational, but then, um, practical evaluation of skill. Right. And so it's,

[00:14:00] it's very different to do that same framework for a salesperson. Um, but, but not right. So that was

[00:14:11] the thing where we were like, we, it just requires like, you know, more brainstorming and more,

[00:14:16] more thinking and the tactical expression of the skill might, might require more infrastructure than

[00:14:24] it does for a developer. You can't just give them a, um, a question on a blank sheet of paper and say,

[00:14:29] give us, give us your solution to this algorithm or this problem. Um, you might have to set up

[00:14:35] scenarios. You might have to get other people involved, which is what we discovered we needed

[00:14:39] to do for other, for other roles, but it's still, it still is an evaluation of the skill. So yes,

[00:14:45] I'll back to your point. The framework, I think, um, can be consistent. The application delivery of that,

[00:14:53] um, requires some nuance.

[00:14:56] Very valid point. Uh, would you like to get into today's episode where we can share some, uh,

[00:15:04] steps and pointers in a risk based, um, approach to management, which I know is a topic you are so

[00:15:13] excited about and can't wait for us to discuss. And, um, isn't at all the reason that you've been

[00:15:19] avoiding getting to this topic. Uh, yeah, it was on the list of, of sort of like tactical things for,

[00:15:26] um, delivering process and, um, uh, um, and, and culture fit. Um, it, it is something that I've

[00:15:35] seen. We, we, we use it, um, as well. Um, it, it helps with not just the, um, communication of,

[00:15:46] of priority, but the understanding of different people's perspectives on the same, uh, issue or

[00:15:53] same, uh, priority. So, okay. So, so specific steps and, and, and tactics. What do we get,

[00:16:00] before we get to it? What, what is a risk based approach to management or risk based management

[00:16:06] approach? Yeah, fair, fair enough. It's where sort of your business priorities are not, um,

[00:16:14] are not set, tracked, analyzed, considered sort of purely in an ad hoc way. Like, oh, I have this idea

[00:16:21] and what would it look like? And we brainstorm or, or we, we talk about the potential, um, you know,

[00:16:28] pros and cons of, of it, but it is to say, no, what is the, what is the risk of proceeding with this

[00:16:37] initiative? And, um, and a risk can have a negative impact on, on the business or there's a risk that

[00:16:43] this succeeds more than we thought. And it's going to then have a, have an upside risk. It's going to

[00:16:49] overwhelm us and, and be too good to be true. Kind of a, kind of a scenario. So it, it, it says,

[00:16:55] if we're really clear about the risk of proceeding with this, we'll be, um, thinking ahead about how to

[00:17:04] mitigate, um, those, those potential outcomes and manage them, uh, effectively. Uh, so some people

[00:17:14] really like this, um, this approach. Um, it, it really works for the way that they, that they think,

[00:17:20] and it's a, it's a prudent way to advance new ideas, um, push something through, um, a process and, um,

[00:17:31] um, and, and pick and choose and prioritize more, more effectively. Um, is that, is that an approach

[00:17:38] you you've seen yourself? Um, is this something you're familiar with? Yeah. I mean, I think we need

[00:17:43] to be very clear that risk-based management isn't about avoiding risks. It's about understanding

[00:17:50] them and making informed decisions. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's a very good point. Yeah, for sure.

[00:17:57] Yeah. Um, but of course the, the key steps, you know, realistically for step one is identifying

[00:18:03] the risks, you know, but you know, that, that's a very jokey sort of step, but the reality is that

[00:18:10] is what you have to do, but you need to categorize those. Just like you were saying, you need to

[00:18:14] understand that a strategic operational financial, you know, their reputation risks is there, you know,

[00:18:21] regulations that we, that we need to be considering when we're doing this. I mean, you know,

[00:18:25] of course in tech, it's even, even more relevant with some of those things and in industry, maybe

[00:18:29] less so, but it's important to categorize those so that you can address them in the right

[00:18:35] way, prioritize them and, um, focus on them. And so that's obviously the next step is assessing

[00:18:41] and prioritizing those risks, um, using tools and, you know, systems and processes that are

[00:18:47] available. Do you have any that you use or is it, is it, um, well, how do you assess the risks?

[00:18:55] You know, how do you prioritize? Yeah. That's probably its own, um, episode entirely.

[00:19:01] It is, I think. Yeah. But there are templates out there if you Google sort of.

[00:19:05] Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, let's leave it there for now. I think

[00:19:10] we've covered a lot of ground, uh, sort of like some of the tactics and the processes, sorry,

[00:19:14] the tactics and steps to sort of get into, um, the delivery of, of process. Um, and, um,

[00:19:21] um, and perhaps come, come back to sort of more of those specifics, uh, in a future episode. Um,

[00:19:26] if you are looking to get a little bit more information, follow us, um, and get more, uh,

[00:19:32] get in touch. We'd love you to go to tntimbits.com. Um, and, um, we'll catch on the next episode,

[00:19:39] Andy. Thank you very much, Scott. I could have talked for hours on this topic that you don't enjoy.

[00:19:46] All right. Thanks everybody. Thank you.